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Platform Pedals with heel clipOver many years of DF riding and racing; I've had many problems with sore feet, hot spots etc. The evolution of clipless pedals, stiff soled cycling shoes, custom footbeds, and even custom shoes, has all but eliminated these problems for me when riding DF's. I've noticed however, especially in hot weather, that the tricks and innovations in my pedals and shoes which worked well on DF's, don't seem to be as effective on my recumbents. My suspicion is that the problems are caused by the fact that your feet are higher relative to your heart on a recumbent, and that you pedal with a dropped heel. I've also noticed that the higher the bottom bracket, the worse the problem seems to be. For example using the same pedals and shoes,I have more foot pain on my P-38, than I have experienced on my EZ GRR with it's lower BB.
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Hot spots
I had this problem on my Ti-Rush several years ago. My Podiatrist said tight cycling shoes could cause the bottom of the foot to protrude resulting in pressure. I did two things: First I purchased cycling sandals by Shimano and use speedplay frog pedals. Since I can adjust the strap across the toe area I can loosen or tighten as needed. Second I had my crank modified from a 175 to about a 155 or 160 by Mark Stonich. This increased the spin, decreased the mashing and is a whole lot better on my knees and feet. I lean toward the short cranks being the most effective in eliminating the foot pain.
Heel Slings on P-38's
I used to have a couple of sets of Lightning-built heel slings for my Lightning bikes.
They were not the best good idea as one's heel could get caught in the loop, depending how your shoes were constructed. This led to some quick releases that definitely weren't quick. I sold both sets of the pedals several years ago.
If you're really persistent with heel slings or straps, you could probably make some pretty easily.
However, as a very satisfied user of clipless pedals on P-38's and other recumbents for almost 30 years, I recommend getting a good pair of cycling shoes and clipless pedals and persevering a little.
Isn't it ironic that the first thing you do when using clipless pedals is to clip into them ? I think they should actually be called Strapless Pedals - an acknowledgment of the days of toeclips and straps.
-- Chris Broome
Chris - thanks for the
Chris - thanks for the information. I guess they are called clipless because there is no toe clip. Clipless or strapless, they were a great innovation on DF bikes. Incidentally, I was an early adopter in the 80's with the original Look design used by Greg Lemond. In fact, I may still have the original Look pedals somewhere in my garage.
I'm sure why recumbents are harder on my feet than DF's. But apparently I'm not the only one. Tim Brummer specifically addresses the problem on the Lightning website. His advice is to modify your pedaling style towards higher cadence and ankling. Basically, this means pushing lower gears at higher cadence. The concept is simple - Power= Torque X Cadence. You can increase power by increasing torque (pressure on the pedal) or cadence (spin). But high torque may be what is causing the foot pain. By learning how to pedal at high cadence, you may be able to reduce or eliminate foot pain. BTW - some pro cyclists use this high cadence approach - most notably Lance Armstrong.
Having said all this, I'm still anxious to experiment with light running shoes. I sent an e-mail to Tim about the heel loops; and I'll probably jury rig something from all the bits I have lying around my garage.
pedals for P-38
Hello Bob,
1) You might be giving up on clipless pedals too quickly. Some recumbent riders report good results by moving their cleats farther back towards the heel than is the norm. This might require taking a Dremel tool to the soles of your shoes if you want to get the cleat really far back.
2) Some clipless pedals have a larger platform than others, so pressure gets spread out more.
3) Steve Delaire, formerly of Rotator Recumbents favors so-called "bear claw" platform pedals. These are sometimes used by BMX riders. They are platform pedals with pointy teeth that bite into the sole of your shoes. He wins races using these pedals. Of course, he also rides a fully faired bike, and that helps too.
4) Many years ago Lightning sold platform pedals with heel loops, much like what you are thinking about. I have never tried them, and do not know if they remain available. Try emailing Tim Brummer about this. He might even have an old pair lying around his shop.
5) I tried platform pedals intended for triathletes many years back. I think they were called Pyro Platforms, or something like that. The problem I had was that they were hard to get out of. I think that triathletes normally do the bike leg of their race at the end, so getting out of the pedals is not a priority for them.
I am lucky, and can use ordinary clipless pedals with mountain bike shoes without problems. Let us know what you try doing to deal with the problem, and what works (hopefully) and what does not.
Safe riding,
Joel
Hi Joel - "been there, done
Hi Joel - "been there, done that ....". In fact, I admit that I've advocated similar remedies to others on the Easy Racer forum. And, to a some extent, these remedies do help on the P-38. But in my case and physiology - big feet, poor peripheral circulation- I still have some foot discomfort and knee pain on my P-38. I'm also a long distance runner. Recently, I read "Born To Run" by Chris McDougall. The book chronicles McDougall's search for remedies to his running injuries, which leads him eventually to the Mexico's Copper Canyons and a brutal 50 mile race with the legendary Tarahumara Indians. McDougall's great discovery is that the source of many running injuries is ironically, the development of thick cushioning supportive running shoes. He advocates, and I agree, that the best running shoe is no shoe at all -- or as close to that ideal that you can come. I'm beginning to think that the same may be true of very stiff bike shoes, supportive footbeds, and fixed cleated pedals. They lock your foot into a rigid position, inhibit their natural movement, and reduce blood circulation to the feet. This may also be the reason that many cyclists suffer from knee problems. While I'm not throwing out my carbon soled Bontrager RXL's or my eggbeater pedals yet, I would like to experiment with a more minimalist approach. Tim's heel loop idea sounds promising. I'll either contact him, or try to cobble together my own design from bits lying around my garage.
Foot Problems and Solutions
I've had good luck with Speedplay Frog pedals and cleats, and eSoles custom insoles for cycling. To buy eSoles, you have to go to a dealer (usually a podiatrist or a chiropractor) who positions your foot over a lidar (laser radar) scanner that makes a 3D image of the bottom of your foot. This is emailed to the company and they send you a pair of custom insoles for cycling in a week or so. HOWEVER, eSoles pushes the idea of a metatarsal arch, which relieved my foot pain on DF bikes, but CAUSED foot pain when I switched to my P-38. The reason is that the foot is positioned slightly farther back in the shoe, and the center of pressure when pedaling is also farther back from the toes. The solution was to have eSoles make me a new set of insoles WITHOUT the metatarsal arch. Now I have no more agony of de feet.
Foot Problems and Solutions
I have also been plagued with hot spots on my feet while riding my P38, my road bike and my mountain bike. I have tried different shoes, insoles, etc. As for the pedals, I have Speedplay frogs on my recumbent, Speedplay on my road bike, and Shimano XTR on my mountain bike.
This year I solved the problem on my recumbent and road bike by moving the cleat on the shoes towards the heal. On my mountain bike I moved the cleats and am using an orthotic with metatarsal pads. In all cases I have noticed relief from the hot spots.
BikingAlan
foot hot spots
I think every SWB bent rider experiences some sort of foot issue, especially hot spots, it's the nature of the beast! In my opinion I think some of this is due to loss of sufficient circulation because your feet are higher than your butt and blood just has a hard time getting there especially for us old guys!
My friend and bent rider(P38 no less)Guru, Tyger Johnson, taught me to pedal with one foot when you get a hot spot, and it works!(just unclip and drop the afflicted foot to near the pavement but don't drag it. make sure you're on a flat, not climbing or descending)! As Joel metioned, be sure to position the cleat as far back as possible on your shoe(also make sure you've got a good pair of shoes). Also, I have found, make sure your shoe laces aren't too tight!
Uusally Hot Foot is a combination of several things and not just one in particular.
Good luck
Scott
no more hotfoot
I abandoned my beloved Sidis for Shimano sandals and eggbeaters. Even with an arch support, my foot was pronating inside the shoe causing considerable pain. Using the sandals, and the same sport arch support, my forefoot stays flat and relaxed, and the pressure is distributed evenly. I wore the sandals this winter with Smartwool socks, no problem. I only wear my Sidis on the rare occasion that I'm back on the Litespeed.
Carolyn